Fokker T.VIII

The Fokker T.VIII-W

In 1938 the MLD felt the need for a successor to the T.IVa.

Marius Beeling designed the Fokker T.VIII-W based on an MLD specification.

It was a large float plane with room for 3 or 4 crew members and capable of dropping bombs and torpedoes weighing up to 600 kg.

7.9 mm FN Browning machine guns were mounted in the nose turret and on top of the fuselage.

The power source was two Wright Whirlwind R 975 E 3 engines of 420 hp each.

Four different versions were built based on the construction method.

For the Netherlands 24 pieces as T.VIII-W/G with mixed construction and 12 pieces T.VIII-W/M, made entirely of metal.

A slightly larger version was built for Finland: the T.VIII-W/C, and also the T.VIII-W/L, a land version.

These machines were equipped with two Bristol Mercury XIs of 825 hp each.

On September 20, 1938, the MLD placed an initial order for 5 units, even before the first flight took place on February 22, 1939.

On 1 November 1939, the MLD placed a second order for 19 T.VIII-W/Gs, followed by an order for 12 T.VIII-W/Ms in February 1940.

Finland had placed an order on 11 January 1939 for two T.VIII-W/Cs with the floats to be exchanged for fixed landing gear.

After the capitulation on May 15, 1940, the German occupiers found an undamaged production line in the Fokker factory.
the T.VIII-W.

There were thirteen MLD T.VIII-W/G examples and two Finnish T.VIII-W/Cs.

Under pressure from the Germans, all aircraft at Fokker were completed and incorporated into the Luftwaffe fleet.

During the war, 24 T.VIII-WG and-Wm and two We were taken over by the Luftwaffe.

On May 13, the MLD was still able to divert to England, and the seven airworthy T.VIII Ws also flew to England via France.

On May 10, one T.VIII-W/G had already arrived in England.

The aircraft were stationed at Pembroke Dock in Wales, where they formed the basis for the first Dutch squadron within the RAF Coastal Command, the 320th (Dutch) Squadron.

Here they were given British camouflage colours, identification markings and registration numbers (AV958 to AV965).

The Fokkers were used for patrol and convoy duties over the Irish Sea.

This type was therefore used for some time in the Netherlands, England and Germany, which is a remarkable fact.

Click on the photo to enlarge the photo

The T.VIII-W in Dutch service

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Fokker T.VIII-W 1938 Historically, the T.VIII-W, a twin-engined reconnaissance and torpedo aircraft for the Royal Netherlands Navy, developed in 1938, is a particularly interesting type. Built according to MLD specifications for service with the Navy in the Netherlands and in the former Dutch East Indies, this aircraft served as a modern replacement for the T.IV floatplanes. The mixed construction consisted of a light metal fuselage fore-part, a wooden fuselage centre section and wing and a welded steel tube or all-metal fuselage aft section covered with fabric.
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The T.VIII W/G (G stands for GEMENGD) was ordered by the Marine Luchtvaart Dienst on 20 September 1938. The seaplane was intended as a torpedo bomber. The first flight took place on 22 February 1939 with the prototype MLD designation R-1 c/n 5582. It did indicate that the work pace at the Fokker company was increasing. Things like practicing firing torpedoes and dropping bombs were done in a short time. There were sometimes problems with the machine gun belts of the ammunition supply. The MLD took the T.VIII W into service on 25 April 1939. Here is a good view of the fuselage and wing construction of the T.VIII-W/G at Fokker in Amsterdam-Noord. Flight tests often took place at the Marine Vliegkamp Schellingwoude, also located near Fokker.
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The cockpit of the prototype of the T.VIII W that certainly shows the progress of the development in the late thirties. The largest part of the interior was also equipped with a plexiglass roof.
R-3 evacuates ministers, R-1 and R-4 fail
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A nice view of the second cockpit with the 7.9 mm FN Browning machine gun in the fuselage. All in all, the government's evacuation attempts were only successful with one of the four aircraft. That was the R-3. Some characteristics of the T.VIII W: - Engines 2 Wright radial engines of 450 hp. - Wingspan 18 m. Length 15.2 m. height. 4.5 m. wing area. 44 m2 - Empty weight 3000 kg. Flying weight 4600 kg.
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Cn 5582 The R-1 is a T.VIII-W/G, the fuselage rear section is made of steel tube, covered with linen. After the Scheveningen action the R-1 was flown to MVK Schellingwoude for various quick repairs. As a result this R-1 could also leave for the UK in time. Some more characteristics: - Max.speed 285-355 km h, cruising speed 219-265 km/h - Ceiling 5850 m, flight range 1500-2000 km. - Two or three FN Browning machine guns of 7.9 mm in left and/or right fuselage nose and a movable machine gun in the back. - A torpedo or bombs up to a total weight of 600 kg.
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The R-1 is here at an aviation fair in 1939, probably in Paris or Brussels. On the left behind, the text 1911-1939 is visible, which stands for the age of the Fokker company in 1939. Also on the left is an image of the future fighter Fokker D.XXIII (23), which was already in the test phase. Behind that, the text Lockheed is already visible and on the right, a model of the Lockheed Constellation can already be seen.
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The prototype during the test flights in this case above North Holland. Incidentally, there was much less time to extensively test the float plane. One of the plexiglass panels in the back was opened because of the nice weather. There is still some test equipment in the nose, but there was a need for haste with the production and deliveries. Also striking were the new MLD planes with small Fokker letters and type designations on the back of the fuselage. This was different with MLD than with the LVA designations with the Fokker signature.
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The R-2 T.VIII.W with c/n 5583 here in very calm waters. This torpedo bomber was taken into service on 05-05-1939 and assigned to GVT group 2. At the outbreak of WWII the R-2 was together with the R1 and R-3 on the Braassemermeer where the first action started on 10 May 1940 at 04:00. Together with the C.XI W W-14 the R-2 came into contact with the Germans during a reconnaissance flight. This led to an undamaged but useful trip and a safe return flight to MLD base Braassemermeer. There it was decided to fly to Scheveningen for the evacuation of government officials but they were not found. On the north side of The Hague there was a lot of enemy traffic and it was decided to fly south around The Hague. The course led to Hoek van Holland at the Waterweg. There followed a clash with no less than 20 German Ju 52 aircraft and the left engine was hit. The R-2 slid at high speed onto the beach of Rozenburg and the crew left the T.VIII W. Eventually the torpedo bomber was shot on fire. The last pilot was MLD Off/Vl 2nd class LAH Rombeek.
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The recently repainted R-2 of MLD. The contours of the cockade are still visible under the orange triangle. The R-2 is still moored here at the naval base Brasemermeer. These float planes were frequently used for reconnaissance flights in the war days of May 1940.
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The G stood for the mixed construction of this machine, also called torpedo bomber. Here the R-2 is already provided with the orange triangles and the tail has that outfit too. The old cocarde imprint is still vaguely visible. On 10 May 1940 the R-2 runs aground on the coast of Rozenburg and catches fire.
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The R-4 here still with red white blue orange cockade. This float plane was involved in the evacuation actions on the beach of Scheveningen. These already took place on 10 May 1940 and ended very badly for this R-4.
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The R-5 belonged to the first group of T.IVIII W/G's that were ordered by MLD on 20 September 1938. The floatplane was delivered on 28 July 1939 with c/n 5586 and as type T.VIII W/G. In this photo the R-5 is at Vliegkamp De Mok on Texel, eventually the Braasemmermeer would become the final destination. On 13 September 1939 the R-5 carries out a patrol in the Wadden area. A "stray" German Dornier Do 18 fires aimed and the R-5 is seriously hit and sinks. According to the Germans this happened "by mistake". It takes place near Hollum, Ameland and the four-man crew is pulled out of the water by the Germans. They eventually arrive on the German island of Nordeney and are later put back over the Dutch border at Beerta in Groningen. We are not aware of any apologies and/or compensation, as the Netherlands was neutral after all.
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The first T.VIII W/G of the second series of 19 aircraft ordered by the Marine Luchtvaartdienst was the R-6 and had c/n 5636. It was ordered in October 1939. On the first day of the war, May 10, 1940, delivery took place from Vliegkamp Schellingwoude in Amsterdam Noord. The first day they flew to the Westeinder Plas (near Kudelstaart) and immediately afterwards to the Alkmaarder Meer. The strange thing is that from this R-6 onwards they were kept out of service. Actually very incomprehensible because there were torpedoes and bombs available. The R-6 later flew with a group of 8 of these aircraft via Belgium and France to England. These were the R-1, the R-3, and the R-6 to R-11.
The flight to England
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MLD R-37 Quite a lot was happening at Fokker Amsterdam-Noord. Finland placed a trial order for 5 of these aircraft. These included c/n 5636 and c/n 5637 etc. in a larger size. There would be 2 Bristol Hercules engines of 1375 hp or Bristol Mercury of 890 hp. There were even Finnish registrations, namely TW, 160, TW 161 etc. But Finland had to cancel the order in that chaotic time.
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After the Dutch surrender on May 14, 1940, there were soon Germans who wanted to continue production of the T,VIII-W.

As with the G-1, there was a well-run production line.

The temporary LVA painting explains the orange mobilization painting.

In the “Germany” section of this page you will see the aircraft listed as KD GG of the Luftwaffe.

The T.VIII-W in British service

On May 14, 1940 at 3:00 AM, the first aircraft that were still ready to fly left the Netherlands, their destination would be Boulogne-sur-Mer in Northern France.

The Fokker T.VIII-W/G aircraft the R-1, R-6, R-7, R-8, R-9, R-10 and R-11 departed together.
The R-3 had already arrived in Brighton in southern England with the ministers Van Kleffens (Foreign Affairs) and Welter (Colonies) and their wives.

The new fast MLD motorboats M-73 and M-74 left via the Eierlandse Gat (Texel) directly to England.
After arriving at Boulogne-sur-Mer at the end of the afternoon of 14 May 1940, the evacuated aircraft were ordered to fly on to Cherbourg (Normandy).

The above mentioned T.VIII-W aircraft would remain in Cherbourg while the remaining 17 aircraft left for Brest (Brittany) on 16 May 1940.
These were the C.XIV W aircraft F-1, F-5, F-6, F-13, F-15, F-16, F-17, F-18, F-22 and F-23. The F-3 remained behind as a target aircraft.

Also flying were the C.VIII W aircraft G-1, G-2, G-3, G-5 and G-6.
And also a CXI-W the W-14, which left for Felixstowe and later flew back to Calshot.

On 19 May 1940 all 17 aircraft had to cross via Cherbourg to the RAF airfield at Calshot (near Southampton) where they arrived on the afternoon of 22 May 1940.
Some of these 17 aircraft were less suitable for service with the RAF and were later transported by ship to the Dutch East Indies.
However, the eight T.VIII-W/G aircraft moved to RAF Naval Airfield Pembroke Dock on the south coast of Wales on 1 June 1940.
320 (Dutch) Squadron would build up a considerable reputation there. The 17 aircraft crossed via Cherbourg to the RAF airfield at Calshot (near Southampton), where they arrived on the afternoon of 22 May 1940.

Some of these 17 aircraft were less suitable for service with the RAF and were later transported by ship to the Dutch East Indies.

But the eight T.VIII-W/G aircraft moved to RAF Naval airfield Pembroke Dock on the south coast of Wales on 1 June 1940.

320 (Dutch) Squadron would build up quite a reputation there.

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On 22 May 1940, they arrived at the RAF seaplane base Calshot, south of Southampton. In consultation with the English, it was decided to form two squadrons for operational purposes at the RAF Coastal Command. Lieutenant Commander 1 J. Van Olm of the MLD was the commander. The first squadron was equipped with the eight remaining Fokker T.VIII W/G, namely the R-1, R-6, R-7, R-8, R-9, R-10 and R-11. The R-3, which had already arrived in England on 10 May 1940, joined the squadron from Brighton. The Dutch registrations were immediately replaced by British registrations. The RAF immediately gave the aircraft the British country designations on the fuselage and wing. The orange triangles were placed in a smaller size on the front and back of the fuselage. The 320 Dutch squadron then moved to Pembroke Dock on the south coast of Wales on 1 June 1940. In this photo the ex R-7 of MLD with c/n 5639 and now renamed AV 961. Lack of spare parts made it increasingly difficult to continue the many reconnaissance flights and patrols.
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Once again the ex R-7 of MLD and now the RAF AV 961 of Squadron 320 at the Pembroke Dock Air Base. On October 15, 1940 the ex R-7 the RAF AV 961 goes to the Netherlands to pick up four secret agents. The flight to the Netherlands takes place on the Frisian Tjeukemeer but heavy fog makes the mission unsuccessful. Pilot (later General) H. Schaper manages to get away in time and repeats the flight on October 16, 1940. That almost leads to a real catastrophe because there is betrayal involved. When flying into the lake and the unlit landing on floats, suddenly there is fire from various sides. Schaper pulls the AV 961 with all his might to gain enough altitude again. Fortunately this succeeds, but such dangerous missions will not be carried out for a long time. Or will they??? Then search further at the Fokker GI and further on at the Fokker T.VIII-W in German service.
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Ex R-8 and here as RAF AV 962 C/n 5640 Beautiful action photo of the ex R-8 and the RAF AV 962 with to the left of it another T.VIII-W. On the underside of the wing the old imprint of the large orange triangles of MLD is still clearly visible. And to the left of that are all the small triangles and the RAF roundels of the 320 Squadron.
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Here is a photo of a formation of no less than three T.VIII-W floatplanes. They are now in English service and in RAF colours with the reduced orange triangles under the cockpit windows. There was also an orange triangle on the rear of the fuselage. The 320 squadron initially received two squadrons, one with the T.VIII-W and the second with the AVRO Anson. On 2 August 1940 split into the RAF 320 (Dutch) squadron and the RAF 321 (Dutch Naval) squadron. These changes came into effect on 2 June 1940. Carew Cheritonin, located at Pembroke Dock, was designated as a reserve airfield.
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In service with the RAF 320 (Dutch) Squadron in Pembroke Dock (South Wales) with its beautiful concrete dock system. Below the cockpit windows are the small orange triangle and under the left wing the contours of the old large triangle. Furthermore the aircraft is already complete in RAF colours. General task of 320 Squadron was the protection of the British west coast and the disruption of German convoys. That meant concretely reconnaissance in the Irish Sea, the Bristol Channel and George Channel.
The operating area
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Here is a picture of the preparation of a reconnaissance that lasted about three hours. The small MLD orange triangle under the left side of the cockpit is clearly visible. No less than five MLD men are getting ready, so these are probably two T.VIII-W float planes. In the dark uniform, the newly appointed commander of 320 (Dutch)) Squadron is LTZ first class J. van Olm of the MLD.
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Action photo taken above the Irish Sea with a partially opened cockpit. The small orange MLD triangle is clearly visible under the cockpit. It also becomes clear that the Fokker T.VIII-W of 320 Squadron and the Avro Anson of 321 Squadron 321 are somewhat behind. Their armament in particular appears to be too weak and shows defects. And that makes the flown reconnaissance more risky. But maintenance is certainly just as difficult due to missing spare parts. These are in Amsterdam and are used by the Luftwaffe...........
Avro Anson
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The four-man crew boarding for a reconnaissance flight. Here the remaining T.VIII-W ex MLD aircraft operate in RAF service. At the end of 1940 the Fokkers have to make way for the Avro Anson and later also the Lockheed Hudson. They are divided between Pembroke Dock Airfield and the nearby Carow Cheriton airfield. Around 28 November 1940 the Fokker era at MLD/RAF in the UK is slowly coming to an end.
Lockheed Hudson

Read here the life history of the T.VIII-W's in Dutch and British service.

The T.VIII-W in German service

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Where we ended the Dutch series with the R-37, we start it with the German series. More explanation soon.
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Cn 5636 Here the KD GG for the Air Force. In the nasal dome the T.VIII-W designer Marius Beeling.
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In service with the German Luftwaffe and operational in Greece during the German occupation. C/n unknown and built and flown by Fokker Amsterdam Noord. The registration is D1 MH and this T.VIII W-LC is located outside the port of Scaramanga in Greece. The Germans registered it rather strangely with all letters in black and only the letter M in white. Presumably many of these floatplanes were broken up in Athens around 1942 and 1943.
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Cn 5637 The KD GH was the land version T.VIII-W/L for the Finns, but confiscated by the Germans.
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Cn 5662 This was to have been the R-30 T.VIII-W/M of the MLD but it became the TD-CQ of the Luftwaffe.
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The Luftwaffe D1 MH in the foreground, is here at a Luftwaffe base in Greece.
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The D1 NH of the Luftwaffe.
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Lots of activity with Luftwaffe T.VIII-W's at the rear of the Fokker factory on the Van Hasseltkanaal.
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